MRRT mockers ignore Rio's royal tax bill

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A good article to explain how much tax the big miners are already paying, but we readers of BS already should know that.. It's a pity the miners did not use your article type publicity to tell the public before the MRRT was introduced to inform everyone and the anti mining lobby of the Greens of where their social services really come from..

Payroll taxes is one area which I could never understand why State Governments are always claiming to be wanting businesses to create more jobs, but having a tax [penalty] for the privilege or right to employ people.

If I recall correctly the GST was introduced to do away with these types of taxes and one of the main arguments used for introducing the Peter Costello & John Howard GST was due to our aging population yet it gets used again and again by tax mnded politicians as an argument for introducing new taxes. Am I the only one that remembers these recurring arguments?

What a surprise, a profit tax that brings in more revenues when prices recover and more profits are made?

Now let's hope that some clever people in the LNP ranks (I suppose there has to some!) will stop with their nonsensical objection to the MRRT. Somehow they want us to believe that $0 is greater than $126 milions. I wonder what they will have to say when the $750 million roll up into the government coffers. This is money the LNP would gladly leave into the bank accounts of large miners while they exploit Australia's wealth that belongs to all Australians.

If electors give the key to The Lodge to politicians that fail Economic 101 and Arithmetic 101 then we have only ourselves to blame.

This seems to have missed the point. Wayne Swan the greatest fianance minister in the world has already spent the forecast profits of $4 Billions in its first year. Oh that's right revised down to collecting $2 Billion dollars in the October review and has bought in $126 Million. The so called $750 Million you mention that will role up into the government coffers has already been spent on the cost of the continual hopeless border protection policies we have in this country. It is estimated that before 1 July 2013 comes along the immigration bill alone will be $2 Billion dollars so where is Australia benefitting from the extra taxes when this is only one area this hopless Governemt wastes our tax dollars on.

@Dante. Actually, the wealth doesn't belong to "all Australians" it belongs to the states. If you don't live in WA or QLD those resources are none of you business. Probably shouldn't be casting aspersions on the intelligence of others when you don't understand that you live in a federation and believe in federal political parties that don't exist (there's no federal LNP, only the Coalition).

Does anyone know the total tax Rio paid as a percentage of their taxable income?

The big miners have put huge sums of money into negative advertising campaigns to force the government into scrapping the MRRT. And then the Liberal Party, which is a lackey to big business, has campaigned hard for the same end.

What Australians need to focus on is that the mining industry is all but owned by foreigners because Australian governments of both persuasion have sold out ordinary Australians. I believe that the big miners take around 90% of net profits out of the nation and they are offended when asked to pay Australian taxpayers a fairer amount.

I applaud higher taxes on miners or indeed any organisation which makes huge profits. They behemoths need to remember that the riches they produce are owned by Australian taxpayers. They are not free and need to be paid for.

For those who argue that "jobs will be lost" I suggest these folk move overseas rather than trying to force a lowest common denominator scenario where minerals are essentially free. They never should be. Anywhere!!

Disagree with your analysis. Pretty much all working Australians pay super and a lot of the super mandates invest in the asx 200 of which near 50 percent is 2 miners and 4 banks. So in short a lot of Australians hold bhp and rio.
In addition Australians benefit at a federal level through 30% company tax and up to near 7% state royalties plus payroll tax. This article points put how much tax they pay and their are still a few moans about it.
Let's also add that it employs labour at 120k plus, develops regional infrastructure, employs outback australians and saved us from a recession in 2009 when the June quarter abs balance of payments were revised upward to save us from 2 quarters of negative growth. Contrary to popular belief it was not stimulus packages which saved us from the recession. Let's also add that it has improved all of our lives though an improved exchange rate allowing us to buy today imports at much lower prices.
The problem with the mining tax is very simple. If it costs $x to do business elsewhere but $1.2x in Australia, over time capital reallocated elsewhere, always has and always will.
What you end up with is a bigger tax on an ever dwindling amount rather than a sustainable tax on large amount. Australia is already in the top few nations of mining production costs.
I have less of an issue with the mrrt than the original rspt which declared a super profit above 6% - give me a break - defining a super profit at the govt risk free bond rate - demonstrates complete lack of finance knowledge.
If u don't believe the arguments above I implore you to research Utah mining in 70s aus. Exactly the same thing proposed by Paul keating then and then check out where it ended up.
The only lies told in this debate are by the govt - in not stating the actual tax recorded by the ato, in constitutionally who owns the minerals - the states and their definition of a super profit.
I think you'll find the miners did far more for this country than these politicians. Like I said check out Utah mining - a real actual Australian example of where an over greedy mining tax ended up. I just wish the govt had've done some research.

@Rambotrader "I believe that the big miners take around 90% of net profits out of the nation". Well, some people also believe in the tooth fairy. Doesn't make it true. The miners are about 60% owned by foreigners, not 90%. Even if that number were 90%, last time I checked dividend payments didn't account for the entire profit of BHP/Rio. There was some capital reinvestment. It's this kind of ignorant commentary that hinders debate about appropriate taxation levels. At the article notes, even with the MRRT the miners pay about 50% tax. That's quite a bit by any fair estimation.

Many of the comments are very interesting.I see the main difference in my presentation as that the politicians have wasted and squandered the wealth of this country by bribing the voting public.Now it has come to the stage that people are paid not to work.housing,food,medical services plus a large buraucracy and administration to run everything. Meanwhile foreign investment flooded in to exploit the wealth of this country.Yes,the politicians gave the public what they wanted. meanwhile the wealth producing industries are now foreign owned.

Dante again misses the point. Negative advertising related to Rudd's version of the resources tax. Gillard and Swan negotiated with the big miners to reach this current deal. There was no negative advertising from the big three. There was some negativity from the smaller miners, but that was because they were left out of negotiations, and could be the hardest hit by the MRRT because they don't have the same capital raising abilities of the big three. All in all this comment raises the issue as to the success of the MRRT, bearing in mind Swan's paperwork forecast $4billion in revenue, and increasing each year. To make matters worse he spent the first $4 billion before any money from the MRRT came in and now has egg on his face. The forecast for next year is $750 million, still far short of Swan's initial forecast. A lot of tax money is being spent for little return, so is it worth it.

I can relate somewhat to Stanley, I think we are heading towards a nation where people are being paid not to work. Housing, food and medical services are I believe essential. As far as a bloated bureaucracy goes, I couldn't agree more. Foreign investment, well that's what keeps the economy moving and growing. Australia just doesn't have the resources to invest in themselves. Contrary to what Labor and unions tell you much of the returns from foreign investment remains in this country, meaning those profits that the large mining companies make remain here in capital growth, taxes and shareholder funds. The coalition see the MRRT as inhibiting economic growth as it stifles profits that can be directed to capital growth. That equates to jobs. We are seeing some of these problems come into focus right now.

"Rio is already effectively paying a super tax rate of around 14 per cent on its profits for the privilege of accessing natural resources."

Why does everyone believe paying royalties is a tax? Just because these mining giants are paying the government, it does not necessarily mean it is a tax.

When a mining company pays royalties, it is actually receiving something of value in return: access to land that it profits from. That is, this should been seen as nothing more than an essential investment a mining company commits to so as to realise a profit, not unlike buying a train or any other piece of equipment. When BHP buys a haulpak off Caterpillar, it is not a tax. So when it buys access to land off the government, this should not be seen as one either.